"N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Ground deviations can happen while taxiing, taking off, or . I know the FAA is trying to do the whole kinder gentler thing but there is a time to make an example. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. For those that don't want to read. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. N731NR: "Vegas Approach, Centurion 731NR with you descending through 5700'"LAS: "1NR, Las Vegas Approach, Las Vegas altimeter, 29.88. It's not just the danger of him putting his plane where he shouldn't have been--there is the addition of the energy spent dealing with him (multiple radio calls taking time away from other tasks, plus building frustration--controllers are human too, and this stuff can really foul your day). Pilot: Ive asked for clearance multiple times.ATC: N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo.ATC: N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. Must have been a Kennedy. saturn in ardra nakshatra pada 2 n731nr pilot deviation. (https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=N731NR). Federal Aviation Administration Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. I live in Las Vegas. I noticed the same aircraft had an incident last year with a gear-up landing in St. Louis. They made me navigate the class B environment that I was unfamiliar with without help from ATC. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! The requested documents will be made available to the general public, and this request is not being made for commercial purposes. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. Learn more. Las Vegas class B is the only one Ive flown close to when I was on flight following trying to get into Henderson and they told me to squak 1200 and see ya. ), Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen). 800 Independence Avenue, SW Assuming N1NR requested clearance, in standard aviation communications, there is a clear protocol. Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. Not a cool move on his part. Yeah, he was a jerk, but she is paid to problem solve, and she didn't offer him any useful solutions other than to just leave. You need special clearance to enter this airspace. It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. Of course that is true, but people who are suffering recent onset of dementia / tumor-induced emotional outbursts / schizophrenia etc. None of my students have gotten one either. It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. The controller states that the pilot needs clearance to be in Bravo and to have requested clearance. Not for nothing, but shes only got 2 guys in the area, coulda cleared him through. This isnt a slap on the wrist type of offense. But you'd think that someone displaying this much attitude and disrespect for critical rules would have shown his true colors and been denied a license much earlier. How hard would it be to just clear him through? When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. It will get figured out. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. I just looked over the link you posted. How Much Does It Cost To Become A Flight Instructor? The FAA can pull your medical for almost any reason, and you will need some pretty expensive doctor's appointments to get it back. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. @Wingslover said, "If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircraft.". He was the one that escalated the situation to where the ATC got flustered/put off by his response. I'm flying." In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Heres the full ATC audio, should you want to listen to it (when you listen to it youll appreciate just how angry this guys tone is): Ive never heard ATC audio where a pilot is so disobedient to instructions. His license should be permanently revoked. If this pilot had responded to the controllers first comment with, Oh my gosh. > ATC should have called the Airforce on him. Doing so erodes hand flying skills which is evident in the last phase of his flight. If you are aware that you have made a mistake, and have filled out the necessary reports, then it will be less likely that you will face serious consequences. Go get him FAA!!! People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. LAS may not have even heard the static. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. N1NR greeted LAS with standard communication and LAS responded with standard information that N1NR would need for their arrival at Henderson airport. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests Attached you will find the Acknowledgment Letter in response to your Freedom of Information Act request. He flew right across the ILS approach glideslope to LAS 26 after he was told to vacate Bravo airspace recklessly endangering multiple lives. What a name for a company! There are reasons for the rules. Wrong. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. The Registry will be issuing revised certificates in batches based on the former expiration date. Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. Essentially, you have the right to be aware that you are in trouble after making a mistake. The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. I live in Las Vegas. Information Mike current at Henderson, they're landing 35"N731NR: [inaudible]. and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. Instead he immediately gets defensive and then combative. On Reddit they doxed him. And stop hating on those people in supermarkets and parks. Did anyone ever find out what happened to this pilot? Thank you. Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. Go read the news HERE AND NOW and find out when we call the cops with the .50 BMGs to take out one guy going to the store because he looks "suspicious".*. Attached is the letter in response to your above mentioned FOIA request. Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. Mistakes happen. For purposes of these compilations, a regulated aviation entity holds a certificate issued by the FAA, (e.g., air carrier operating certificate, repair station certificate, pilot school certificate, airport operating certificate) or is a foreign air carrier or other aviation entity regulated under Part 129 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, 14 CFR Part 129. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. I assume the ATC reports him to the FAA and the FAA investigates? He risked lives at the time of this incident, and in the future if pilots aren't seriously punished for this kind of behavior. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. Keep up the anti-mask bs. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". Whether BR was cleared or not he was tracked and being separated. ATC is trying to direct traffic and Mr Wachner regardless of a possible misunderstanding says to hell with you I'm doing what I want. I won't belabor those points. Continuing into class Bravo airspace without a clearance and then flying right thru the active ILS approach to a major airport is a huge problem. That award goes to the pilot of PK8303 who ignored multiple warnings about how he was too high and fast, and then tried to land with gear up before killing almost everyone on board. The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: An entitled pilot enters restricted airspace and argues with air traffic control when told to leave.It appears to be a normal day June 20, 2020 at Las Vegas Air Traffic Control (ATC) when an air traffic controller directing planes notices a small Cessna in Bravo airspace that was not cleared to be there. If N1NR had requested clearance, ATC would have responded with clearance or denial and N1NR would have to confirm what was said. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. Open the communication! I will answer the question exactly as written: > When ATC has you call. Is spoiled B short for "Spoiled Bravo Airspace" or "Spoiled Brat" or "Spoiled B." :). 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997. Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? What are the Advantages of Using VOR Systems for Navigation? Flightaware shows he flew in from denver at 16300' level the whole way. Sometimes they have multiple frequencies on the same station, so you might hear more than one controller. The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. Don't assume the pilot flying owns the aircraft. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. This guy intentionally violated it, then took up ATC's time fighting about it. She then states (in so many words) that she didn't clear him and she's the only one that can clear him. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. With respect to my comment above (cant edit), delete the word email from the comment (next to last word). That kind of thing happens every day. He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. If you are on an IFR flight and told to maintain a certain altitude, deviating from that altitude beyond tolerances set by the regs qualifies as pilot deviation. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. Not saying that he should yell at him, but apologizing seemed a bit odd. You don't get to tar the rest of us with his brush. Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. The tower controller likely doesn't care, as he won't be handling it. If you should have any trouble viewing this email or the attachment, please notify us immediately. The controller continues to direct other traffic including warning other planes in the area that N1NR is there and approximately where it is so that they do not collide with it as it has still not left Bravo. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. ATC either turns him around or gives him a better heading. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will fly next to a cessna and then hold up a sign (that conveniently they stashed in the cockpit) and write on it with a magic marker. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. BTW to the ATC controller who explained workload issues during handoff - thank you!! I'd always much rather be proactive and prevent a pilot deviation. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. Publicado el junio 1, 2022 por junio 1, 2022 por Good job on hitting a new high USA! Not only is it against our good nature, but its more work to deviate a pilot (tell on them in lay terms) than to overlook trivial pilot errors after calling them out, as long as it doesnt pose an imminent danger. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. The plane was a Cessna P210N, so pressurization could be an issue. Maybe on a subconscious level, you realize that there are departures off of Runway 27R as well. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". I remember about 20 years ago when my grandfather and I flew up to Vegas to SEMA and we flew outside class bravo and he explicitly explained that we dont get near that ring until ATC says clear to enter. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. Good luck. A copy of documents responsive to the request. IMO he needs to have his ticket pulled for a year minimum. 1) Probably not hypoxia. Caller - oh you might say that. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/faa-records-for-n731nr-97015/, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. He SHOULD lose his cert for Just to offer a slightly different perspective on all of this, I am wondering if there's a medical issue here, in which some sympathy might be warranted. Why Do They Cut the Back of Your Shirt When You First Fly Solo? From available ATC communications, it appears this particular pilot either forgot to make the request, or thought he made the request to get permission. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. There's many, many reason why a plane is not allowed into Bravo space. This is usually in the following format: (Aircraft identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. Sometimes ATC attitude causes the problems. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. Thank one every time you get where you're going. - file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan that gives you the same priority as airline traffic. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still Gotta love how times have changed 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. Controllers do not make up things to pick on pilots. 08:47PM EDT Montreal-Trudeau - YUL. Please send comments to the following: http://av-info.faa.gov/feedback, Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing). As well as this, you might want to consider making a call to an aviation attorney before you call the number that you have been provided with. If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Double that. @Francis Bagbey Bravo airspace, like Ben said, is the airspace around major airports in the country. I suspect the way this will be (or has been) settled is that both the controller and the pilot will be counseled respectively on what they could have done to prevent the situation. He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) "Other pilot: "You're an ass$&#!". (Apologies if external links aren't allowed.). (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). How much you want to bet this pilot is one of the people who refuse to wear a mask? Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! I've been given instructions that I don't agree with. (i.e. There are legal charges. This guy make me sick!!! Let the appropriate agency (the FAA) handle this. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate.